Lily Hammer 4:15 Fri Jul 24
Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Something just occurred to me. Of course Tomkins got his red, but ask yourself this....
.....Why did the Malteser get a yellow?
Was it not for a foul against Tomkins, in the penalty area?
Why, after the yellow for the Malteser, and the red Tomkins, was it not a penalty for West Ham?
Am I missing something here?
(If this has been done to death already, apologies and delete).
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Replies - In Chronological Order ( Show Newest Messages First)
eastend joker
4:21 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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I would have thought the reason there was no penalty awarded was because the ball was dead and the free kick had not yet been taken .
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Lily Hammer
4:30 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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That's the first explanaition I thought of. So that would mean that a foul in the area is technicallly different depending on whether the ball is dead or not?
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1964
4:34 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Disciplinary sanctions:
a caution for unsporting behaviour shall be issued when a player holds an opponent to prevent him gaining possession of the ball or taking up an advantageous position
a player shall be sent off if he denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity by holding an opponent
no further disciplinary action shall be taken in other situation of holding an opponent R estart of play:
direct free kick from the position where the offence occurred*
penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area
if a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty area but continues holding inside the penalty area, the referee shall award a penalty kick
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Lily Hammer
4:47 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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1964
That's all clear, but it still doesn't cover last night's situation, when the ball was dead at the moment of the original holding foul.
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1964
4:56 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Not sure then
My GUESS is the ref was right, booking but no pen
need Graham Poll
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Willtell
5:03 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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That's my guess too. I think the ref was probably right on the technicalities. The defender was holding Tomkins while readying for the corner. Yellow no pen. Tomkins twisted and threw him off. Red - sent off.
Harsh but probably correct. Certainly not just or fair.
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JustAFatKevinDavies
5:04 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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i remember years ago on the opening day of the season a newcastle player got sent off for decking a young darren bent in the area in the MELEE preceding a corner. Red card but no pen as the ball was dead
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1964
5:07 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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More FIFA Laws:
T he following conditions must be met for an offence to be considered a foul:
it must be committed by a player
it must occur on the field of play
it must occur while the ball is in play R emove any one of these conditions and the offence is not and cannot be a foul
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1964
5:16 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Must have got booked for "unsporting behavior"
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onlyoneclydebest
5:19 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Still,at least the play acting tosspot went on to miss his penalty
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VirginiaHam
5:25 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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1964 5:07 Fri Jul 24
My reaction was there was no foul as the ball wasn't in play.
The first grappling had to come from the defender (why would Tomkins hold on to a defender?) and I think the defender went down due to a mixture of shoving and diving, followed by deliberate rolling around.
Typically, referees never allow that situation to develope, and the pair get an early bollocking and get told to stop (which they don't). It should have been nothing more than a yellow for each, and maybe a second lellow for all the rolling around.
Either way, Tomkins deserves a massive bollocking for getting sucked in by a snidey cheat.
Noble too.......embarrassing to get wound up so easily....there's worse to come now.
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Lily Hammer
5:39 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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VirginiaHam 5:25 Fri Jul 24
Make you right about worse to come. We will certainly be targeted as an easy team to wind up.
We have certainly put the IRON on irony considering we are in europe due to fair play.
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ironsofcanada
5:43 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Hopefully two times and a bunch of yellow means they learn from it .
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Lily Hammer
5:47 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Anyone notice Noble giving the discrete tongue in cheek cocksucker sign to the bloke he had the first bit of aggro with? Made me smile at first but then I realised how pissed off he was so early in the match. I thought he'd be the red at that point.
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betrayedby the board
5:51 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Well Bilic ought to be able to teach them the kind of thing to expect given this performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJa1dvEjBfg
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1964
5:52 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Footballers are thick!
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Fifth Column
6:00 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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I'm a referee but I didn't see the incident.
As someone said, if the ball is not in play then you can't award a free kick/penalty.
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ironsofcanada
6:01 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Lily Hammer 5:47 Fri Jul 24
It wasn't that discrete and I think you were just seeing one side of his face. I think he was actually puffing out his cheeks to say how fat Miccolli was.
Could be wrong except about the discrete part as he did it like three times in a row.
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El Scorchio
6:01 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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We need to be smarter and not be goaded into reacting by these muggy European sides intent on getting our players sent off with cheating and play acting.
Very naive so far, both Tomkins and sakho for the actual reds, and for reactions from some of the others.
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Lily Hammer
6:02 Fri Jul 24
Re: Tomkins' Red Card Incident - A question for armchair referees....
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Fifth Column 6:00 Fri Jul 24
OK, thanks Fifth.
That puts that to bed.
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